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A lovely tongue in cheek story indeed!
We know that if gout presents- it will be more 'biting the cheek' that occurs though…
MS and Parkinsons are mutually exclusive with gout on recent research and it's been discussed here a bit that high UA helps with antioxidant levels in the immune system.
Not only are gouties tending to success, high intelligence and black humour they are now supposed to be getting more than their 'fair share'- this I doubt greatly, as Zinc levels being high make Iron absorption high and thus gout more likely.
So in fact, no 'nookie' means more pain elsewhere..
We all know the syndrome -that the more one wants something the higher priced and further away it goes, somewhat like an actual cure for gout itself
Someone was dreaming again…
I differ on Odos' view on the worthwhileness of natural cures.
I had two sequential readings of 4.5 whilst on the Goutcure 'blitz' diet and I wouldn't call that a small gain. In fact, if I just stayed around 6, that would be fine for now -without attacks.
Further the capsules are made up of herbs like Yucca root and others like aged garlic and you recommend a herbal approach yourself- so I don't get where your view is coming from- somewhat contradictory.
Most meds, in my view, are potentially noxious- but that doesn't mean one can't take them, even as you recommend them here. In fact ,generally -meds tend to acidity in the body from all I've seen and that's not good for gout, in particular.
Allopurinol does have a predictable therapy value when needed -but I prefer to try other methods while able to do it with reasonable success.
Welcome to the forum Carol- My experience is that UA reduction can be acheived using natural methods- but only up to so much.
Changing my BP meds for the combination of Furosemide and Losaratan has helped as this gives a boost to UA reduction of 1% (or more), according to reliable reports (I think Japan).
Certainly stopping Bendrofluthiazide was a good move. No attack for 9 months now!
This is not enough to tip the scales though – so I use Goutcure daily, a herbal mix reputed to be good for everything, and if it is, Good! Also using a probiotic from them.
The site that supplies this to me Goutcare.co uk also give a fair bit of dietary advice which is helpful, if hard to follow for long. A week is the usual 'full strength' diet run.
Mainly fruit , veg and water to go with the Goutcure which can be a tad drying I find- but also at the 3 a day -gives me itching!!
So it may be that the UA going into the blood does this -as urine acid output goes up dramatically.
Often a reading in am of 5.5- highly acidic. This is night time normal follow up to liver & kidney function.
So the itching may not be all bad and if you try Goutcure, but be gentle with anything you try- as you may be already helping the situation with your own ministrations.
You might find a UA monitor helpful if you can't get ready checks on blood and this helps me get on track. Stay below 7mg/dl if you can, though daily variations are normal.
If you need meds, then you can read up on here many opinions- but whatever you do, you will need persistence -and a good doctor helps a lot. They generally don't 'get' gout very well ,especially if they don't suffer from it or have direct experience of it, like many lay people, too.
You will get a SUA test before they will prescribe anything.
It will be interesting to see if you come up against any import restrictions J.
If not, and you can get some OK , much further interest in your comparisons between the two types.
I thought you were acting for Hubby here- but it seems you're a Gout sufferer also?
Result !
I would practice getting a good result as it takes a few stabs- though Chlorestrol is the harder one to do, if you use it . [Needs about 4X the blood @ 5mm 'across blob']
Then you can gauge the accuracy of your meter/ technique against the Lab test.
Obvious, I know -but it can creep up on a body!
Pros? there's not even a price list… 😉
If things have settled down I would just give the AlloP a burn.
SUA moves about quite a bit anyway- and a reading after you start would be more useful unless you get your own meter for monitoring progress and trimming doseage etc. Good luck on it!
I've got a painless 'baked bean' on R index finger, over a year now – but I'm not sure if it's UA related.
It goes down readily if pressed and comes back minutes later. More likely to be subcutaneous cyst- but what do yours do, when pressed firmly for some seconds?
It's easy to forget that, just a few hundred years ago, life expectancy was a lot less. Late twenties could almost be seen as middle-aged and people got married in their early teens to get 'on with it' early.
So it's all relative. The big difference then was diet for the masses- it was meat only on high days and Holy days and watered beer to replace poor drinking water. People were much more physical in their everyday lives and work too. Only the really lazy rich got gout- hence the indulgent tag..
Add it all up and see why gout is increrasing in the young. Even as close as the last war people were judged as never healthier- many on minimal survival diets.
Food and sweet production is huge biz now along with flab and fat fighting diets etc.
Add in medicine use like diuretics and mother nature, even if faulty, just takes advantage of the situation.
A lot of us wouldn't have giout- or anything else for that matter … we'd be pushing up daisys!
High levels of childhood obesity in the West are not going to help reduce figures for future gout incidence , so it may well get increasing attention.
A posiible for Nanny State to start on? Now what's in your fridge….
Yeah, Nate…
Maybe Gout needs to be nenamed as Hereditary Reactive Hyperuricemia – or HRH
-the disease of Kings indeed!
That just about says it Nate!
I hope more than a few Miedics read the copious notes here on GoutPal- and get updated that gout is not strictly and 'old boys' disease.
I'm sure some DO have a grip and we don't necessarily hear about the good stories.
It's noticeable though, how the reporting age of getting gout has lowered on here -now more younger people come forward with it.
Also the repeats of neglecting to diagnose a really historically well known condition!
Once that fitness of youth is lost- it's really hard to get back and we all need to keep on the' right side of good' on this by nipping gout in the bud as early as possible and thus staying ahead of it.
[Middle aged spread…
]Gout [form of Arthritis] is definitely hereditary.
By the by-I had an uncle who was crippled with arthritis for years, having spent time in the road build and agriculture fields too. Not a good precursor to a easy old age.
My gout started to show after 60. You are indeed unlucky OP , to show signs so young.
You quoted weight but the more interesting figure is your BMI, related to your height. This is something that will need addressing, I suspect, in future approaches to your gout.
You're not alone though – non-drinking women of 30 have been got by Gout, so it's not always predictable, as to attack profiles.
Bear in mind- and looking ahead quite a long way- drug treatments are improving and will help you cope better, along with suitable diet and exercise, which will become more necessary as you age. [With or without meds. Are you on any yet?]
Gout is not as serious as diabetes, in my laymans view, but it certainly demands AS serious an approach- to reduce/eliminate painful attacks and the likely secondary issues of high UA around the system, particularly over the extended time ahead you face.
Good progress RD!
I don't think heavy exercise raises UA directly, it's just that lactic acid levels rise and get precedence in clearance.
Obviously, if you can measure your SUA as discussed here using the units available , you would be one stop nearer handling your exercise regime.
Failing that, Gently Does It -and build up to higher levels, bit by bit. The risk of extended over exertion is high for causing gout flares, but having flexible boots and hydrating will reduce this happening.
You'll just have to be flexible with your program and NOT take on TOO much before you know what you can manage comfortably.
Even now winning the UA war- I still notice sudden strange night sensitivity on old sites , like a folk memory! Though generally, I'm not sensing an attack being at all likely.
You need to use a meter , really – to be more in control on this.
Maybe the Black Soy are Heavy Duty- those able to finesse the South sea Turtle route are indeed fortunate- the rest are Mungers 😉
I think better than one point is attainable but bear in mind we're all different. I don't eat meat [20+ years- though small amount of fish]
I've seen 3 points drop without meds, save 1/2 dose Lasix [US] and Losartan BP; meds- help a point or so, too. But this is on daily variables-
I only *[Kernel] test weekly- last one 6 ; highest 8 [Dr.] and lowest 2 @ 4.5 mmmmmm
This @ 5% accuracy. Good enough. It does include the unquantified contribution from *Goutcure capsules- which I think do help a good amount. * [Goutcare.co.uk]
On my previous open comment- I said you could be pushed in the meds direction on 9+ figures without feeling you had failied yourself. You would need a meter to test SUA on a diet route and be prepared for the unknown, either way.
Certainly, taking a direct interest is often better for personal reasons and Docs seem quite happy to support this, from my experience- but you know your situation [work demands , home setup & general health] better than me.
Well, I'm being more positive than you realise.
Zip does all manner of 'bad boy stuff' after learning well over the years to hedge his bets on AlloP usage 😉
I do maintain though, that diet can really help if you value a minimal [meds] intervention approach.
Also, it can help with secondary issues like glucose control, lipid levels etc as well as keeping weight down.
I can get away with a bottle of wine without triggering an attack now- even though my last 'nasty one' was only last year.
Beer…er No! [or very little].
Yep, Turk- you and Zip will get along 🙂
Anything over a repeating 9+ SUA has to be on target for the meds course, even if you don't work earning, or mind restrictive diets- and I suspect neither of these apply here.
Here's hoping that 5 years of medical neglect hasn't left you stuck with a UA backlog to clear out when starting AlloP or similar.
Hans- Thanks for the thumbs up- but I have much to learn every day. Is that the secret?
With the onwards march of state abetted psuedo femiinism- women have become more like us worker ants whilst men still have a fair bit to learn on the now missing witchery bits 🙂
Warlocks of the world unite- you have nothing to lose but your Gout. 😉
Zip- I don't think the Goutcure approach rejects meds as a possible treatment but they have confidence in their product. Optomising meds to patients would make much more sense- but it's too much trouble ie too complicated and time consuming. The main reason Gouties apply themselves assidiously is they are in substantial unmitigated pain!
My reading of their words is that meds are not the only, best or longterm safest way to approach the problem. In this I think they are correct- IF… their product does what they say it does.
For this , you have to try it and find out- Is this really any different from finding out if meds in turn will work as best choice , react badly, run out of steam or mask other ill health trends?
All these co laterals are just as bad [or actuially worse] as the admitted chore of diet slavery.
In time, ones' tastes do change in accordance with healthier chioces and surprise !- is often cheaper !
Most gouties are older men- they are not renowned for looking after their own diet and health care. I 've noticed that women posting here and elsewhere are much more prepared to look at more labour intensive natural solutions than many men.
So men are their own worst enemies in their traditional behaviourand indeed pay a heavy price for this in gout!
I took the Goutcure a few years back and didn't persist. This time I've decided to keep at it- [this time with ProBio] though it does seem to enhance diuresis used con-currently with Lasix.
If not enough water is drunk with it it tends to give a taste in the mouth but all in all it seems to be quite good at sending up excretion as far as I can tell, from expelled water ph figures going quite acidic.
6 times a night can get wearying though!
They also supply the Kernel monitor.
Basics John, is to get a Serum UA blood test & diagnosis and post it on your own thread.
Easier to follow and keeps the BBB work focused 🙂
That being said, BBB is easy enough if you search for links.
Turtle beans are easy to get- even if Soy are reckoned stronger. Try the simple route first.
On the pain- not moving at all is where many get- so be assured you are still 'looking [relatively] good' !
PS:Your bouts do seem quite close together for first timer.
@ Sorry Trev – think we gotta go that way
Hey! I'm all for choice..I think the benefits of AlloP outweigh the disads.- but will not encourage other lifestyle changes so much that could be a better option long term.
A bit along the steroids line- but without the option of short term usage.
On the wine- I used to use a vacuum pump but now save those small 2 glass minature bottles and re-use them [3 to a bottle] . That way, it's not so tempting to finish the bottle- though I have been known to hiit three minatures in a row on occasion, ruining the effort somewha!
On the fish oil, I take Omax daily and found it OK. A PhD doc also mentioned the good effects of Co Q10 for heart health support, and anything that works 'to the good' has to be given a fair trial. He was, incidently quite a 'meds junky'- as I saw it, but obviously it's filterinhg through to mainstream medics that supplements have a place in the armooury of good practice!
There may be reasons for not taking them with gout, but I've not noticed.
Beer is altogether different -even though some effects are appreciated short term!
GP posted a mention of work showing positive effects of anthocyanins on UA being investigated- it's possible it's indirect and thus harder to gauge, say via alkalizing the body thus reducing acid load and keeping UA more mobile? Just given the body time to adjust.
I suspect the high level of cyanide potentially in soya hull could make them more safely supplied de-hulled in some areas. Probably abroad, they aren't that 'elf n safety pinned!
Probably not as bad as Napoleons' wallpapeer though 🙂
Addendum:
I saw recently a diet that really stressed the benefits of lettuce. It seems such an innocuous plant, but nature is very like this. Subtle and often against modern advertising etc. Bitterness in taste is often a plus in health benefits. I really can't stand those curly ones for this reason.
I think it was certainly highly alkalising and probably also good for Gout diet, as Phof stresses.
There are many , often confusing lists of gout freindly or alkaline foods.
Two points on the current discussion re this :
I suspect fish is rated for purine content with the skin kept in the equation.
I pretty well always have mine skinless now. Last few years like this.
Also, for protein support in diet -the only obvious candidate seems Whey protein, though its' cost has kept me off so far.
The sports people and body builders use it a lot and it lends itself easily to shakes and juicing. I will have to get onto it more soon ,as my protein intake must currently be less than it should be, trying to alkalise my diet as a veggy!
I think this has helped my UA downwards- but is not the best long term solution for all round health.
Bob-
Can you check your referenced links, they don't scan.
OR- maybe expand the overview on the test results?
You need to get the unit of measurement confirmed to save confusion.
In the US it's different to the UK. 215 doesn't seem worrying.
Converted from umol/l would be about 3.6mg/dl mid range normal for a woman.
Top end would be 357 according to my Kernel supplied data. 700 would seem way high, especially for a confirmed gouty.
Juliana- your H is already round the 'gout corne'r – once an attack has occured it is potentially capable of re-occuring. It's very hard to know what's going on under the skin even with numbers on UA.
One thing , though- I reckon it will take time to get a balance and you may be expecting too much, too soon.
The progress on UA reduction has been really good, in fact very encouraging- and shows just what can be done.
Are you both just suffering from 'gout weariness' that can often hit in, almost like gout itself?
Doing a mile walk is stretching things rather if attacks and UA transients are occuring. The steroids are good at masking a problem that is telling the body important info – Rest Me!
I don't think AlloP does any more than do the 'dirty work' for the body and whatever gets UA down will have the same effect -only in different time scales.
IMO, the slow route is best. I had a bottle of wine last night with barely a twinge this am- and I'm far from 'over the hill' on the UA problem. 4 pints of ale would have been different!
