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i tried Kefir a while back and found it too acidic. Like Cider vinegar.
It was out of date mind 😉 [I'm a bloke!]
I felt my teeth enamel wouldn't take too much of it, tbh!
However, to be fair, probiotics and soured milk products are supposed to help with gout and are therefore on the 'good' list. io do a lot of yoghurt and take a coated proBio which delays action to the lower digestive system where it does its best work.
One has to take account of personal circs. & /or reactions to various products in all of this !
Yes, I've tried and have fridge full, it will cause thirst in me, too. Tomorrow i ease off the water a bit as I have to work at in anyway. Don't need much excuse.
Trouble is I don't really like dark chocolate but I'll have a hot chocolate soon to celebrate your new diet Jule!¬
On the BP numbers, I need 30% down rather than the 3% qouted !
I've switched to the Alkalinity thread in Gout Cures on my follow up on PH test strips.
BBB gets enough attention 🙂
I have also taken advice from here and purchased the Energise test strips Juliana mentioned.
I'll report here on their use , the BBB thread is getting sidelined a bit with this very interesting issue.
Hans- I've tried the diet proposed by Goutcare and it seems to work.
I see no reason to doubt that halving my UA in serum since a check last year is all down to tweaking my BP meds that can only manage 15% fall in trials, welcome though that reduction is.
You are already convinced that an alkaline diet is better than acid, with or without gout- and though the diet is quite hard to stick to, there are loads of tips. They will probably send it without a purchase- they are a good outfit, from my dealings with them.
I hope this advice helps- I have no connection with them -other than as a customer of their UA meter.
Our posts crossed GP- so they are merged- One thing though, the higher figure of 500 mg assumes a 'healthy male' and that is a moot point- with many sufferers here. I'm not fading fast, but fit ? – Mmmm….
It means that kidney function must be good before an assessment of urate clearance capability can be made. 200mg still sounds good to me
– IF it can be sustained!My kidney scan last year show some damage in one. This is far from uncommon, I gather.
Sorry Jule-I'm not sure what the drinking refers to Water,BBB or Alcohol?
On the getting rid of UA-I'm floating some figures just to illustrate the problem. 200 mg Urate exiting would be great probably, but attainable ?? – I would really like to know.
This would not necessarily mean an acid urine- but just a LESS alkaline one. The output ph of the body is ,after all, a resultant of all the processes going on. This is why it IS so hard to gauge effects of 'this or that' without being next door to a teaching hospital -and gagging for pokes and jabs!!
This issue had some mileage in it- as GP mentions elsewhere, there's a lot of confusion /hype over acid/alkaline issues.
On the the BP- I have been higher and know at those levels you do feel stressed and reactive.
It is too high without treatment. A multi track approach is needed for BP management-as for gout!
Weight loss, relaxation ,regular low level exercise + heavier body work, if manageable and gout allows. Treatment by meds always has to be considered amogst all this- but not replace it, in my view.
I suspect there may some water retention going on with your H and that is why diuretics, for all their predisposition to provoking gout are so good. I take one [Furosemide] still and scrape by without attacks, possibly due to the co- use of Losartan [NB – Must be after ~ 4 hr delay] – which is reported to reduce UA as an extremely fortuitous benefit.
I passed this tip on the a local cardio specialist btw. He was unaware of the research.
Like many interesting discoveries , this was accidental.
I put the cream on and covered the right foot with wet [cold] kitchen roll to ease the pain.
When later it had dried somewhat I was surprised to see quite dark yellow speckles on the tissue and I think it diid help the discomfort too.
At the time I wasn't quite so much on pinning down this curse, so let the event pass by
Hey jule – he's not alone but keeping up the pressure is the game, not on DH but the beast G!
I still think from what I've read that a steady daily diet of a couple of days is needed to get a steady reading. On top of this you have the effect of any meds and then that of naturapathic foods & remedies. At least wee tests don't need blood!
Didn't Zip do a rough assessment, a while back, of the actual amount of urate needed to shift to reduce flares /tophi?
This would only need to be,say 300 mg per day (asprin size), or 2 gm a week= 100gm/year [ ~1/4lb !!] Thats a lot of tophi potential and it's taken a lot longer to get there.
Is 200 mg /2000ml [expressed urine/day,say] significant in [lowering] urine Ph? (Acidiify) Possibly, but already going to be low in gout -and on a log scale too.
It doesn't seem enough to alter blood ph figures much- they seem to stay very steady , by all accounts- whatever is done.
C' mon Zip- you just love those Ph strips…
You said elsewhere it's a minefield!I suspect, with recent attacks, 2 or 3 times daily with BBB would be needed, Juliana.
Its definitely reduced twinges on my sites- but that was due to diet/supplements and not an actual attack.I think once a day not enough.
I can’t think why it would affect BP tbh.On the water Ph., bear in mind that excretion will up the acidity, but when it peaks is anyones guess.
I think I will get some test strips- ages since I used them and they could be useful in gauging body reactions to diet etc..I think the most common risk is flushing out minerals and possibly affecting food absorbing- but I wouldn't be surprised if transient Hi BPs weren't possible. I take diuretics so they act on fluid volume- precisely to reduce blood volume and thus able to trigger gout in the extremities.
From my studies on water it seems that low water intake can actually lead to water storage as your bodies automatic defence, but when you 'top up' I suppose it takes time for adjustment.
Apparently it's possible to get intoxicated on water overdose and it can cause death in cases of drug abuse, like Ecstacy.These are large amounts,though.
I believe water intake can assist UA excretion- but the Urate needs to be 'mobile' to do this, hence my trial on Goutcure- which is supposed to help this.
My direct experience is fluid retention being caused by alcohol intake which is in accordance with my 2nd comment above -but alcohol drives up BP anyway and clouds the issue, esp. if on meds.
Finally, in us oldies- you're right -these things always take longer
I was reading recently that tophi present much more quickly in older patients.
Nothing about the rate of depletion though- perhaps 'too early' days in this long saga?
Perhaps also, it holds a pointer to how to get rid of them- but it probably is no more than the body defences putting the stuff clear of joints , nature not expecting the age extension of modern times to allow even more problems in tissues etc. to arise.
The idea is to keep running, whenever possible!.
I had a Sri Lankan lodger a few years back who gave me some ointment to try and it actually drew yellow deposition through the skin during a bad attack. Never knew the name of the gel.
Lost contact now.
Yes Zip!, we need a volunteer with a UAsure or Kernel to do some tests,- before and after.
Being realistic, this is unlikely to happen, at least soon, but nothing wrong with a wish list!
It would be particularly interesting to see if Lager has a better 'beer' profile in this ,too-being low in sugar residues after brewing.
To round it off- if wine and spirit drinkers want to chip in- all the merrier!
But ALE is the one in the dock for me, from experience and 'read ups' on it.
Cheers!
Good progress Bob! Forewarned is forearmed indeed. Hope you get a good run with the UA lowering.
The test strips I have are 2 months- they pong when you open the pot like they are gassing chems- which is right enough. They are aobviously very re-active.
Zip is a chemist [Yes, I know – he seems quite normal otherwise 🙂 ] and may well come back on this?- to explain the rate of roll off of accuracy as the strips go out of date.
Like meds etc. they always stay on the absolute minimum margins and in this case if I ask supplier for advice I will sold more strips, pronto. That's life. use them up in date if possible and swallow the costs. No messing!
Get some meaningful results and find the right spots to stab your fingers etc. comparing- as you intend with lab results.
Make some good notes and you will be on track.
Hans, you are right- there's a difference in our sytems certainly.
For all it's failings the NH service here does support a very good GP system which many people are happy with.
The 'bottom line' isn't such a driver as in the States.
I think your politicians are frightening the voters with similar potential costs in the new bill proposed.
My favourite 'beef' is big Pharma grabbing the reins in many ways with their big Biz approach to health.
There are many out to reduce free choice in so many ways these days. Medics are not that bad, generally – just human!
Voters , [Us !] let the devils get away with it when they set the ground rules- IMO for medics also…
It is all relative and rather subjective. there's not a lot of money in gout.
Bottom line?
I think GP understands the challenge and neglect around gout Hans!
I get the impression from a comment Keith made earlier that alot of interest is taken in this site by the medical establishment [Probably from the trafffic]
I sincerely hope they take a lot of note- as with the pain of gout being VERY seriously underestimated by them, it's only a matter of time before it filters through.
The medics mostly go into the job as a calling- it's not something everyone would, or could do well – if at all. Certainly, it takes a lot of 'doing' over a lifetime, to heal others.
My personal hope is that much insight and coping can be garnered here in both the management and treatment of 'Big G' at the personal level -and that pressure will remorselessly build for a more enlightened approach by the medical establishment including Govt and Pharma!
Zip- You gotta be jesting
On my current program I have got to be virtually TT. The last time I went dry for 4 weeks and my buddy hauled me out for Beers,Rum and Curry at 2am I got a blaster of Gout.
My last. maybe forever. Grrrr.
Beer- nice thought- but I will default to the wine only- in easy stages. I have some Cherry Liquer 15% which keeps in the bottle [thus resisting the finishing push] and that will be the 'official medicine' -as I carry through the Meister Plan!
Mega- Interesting Xmas surge showing there!
-maybe a result of seasonal over-indulgences ?
Don't let success go to your head- you may end up on stage, with a lighter…
Greetings Bob!
I would be interested to see the change in 6 months without any intervention. It sounds like you have very high figures now- but with gout there are many surprising twists on the way!
I have managed to go the opposite direction , thankfully- but have wondered what the expected maximum rate of change in SUA may normally be. This would be of immediate special interest to diet maintainers [pricipally- do manage BP meds to be gout freindly] like myself, and others ,where the movement is slower than with meds – but always appreciated when in the right directiion.
The history of SUA reading will hopefully become less of a 'black art' now many people are fed up with pain of gout and the rather [overall] second rate treatment by conventional medicine and are getting testers for own checking use.
TBH, I was surpised that your SUA figure 6 was as low last year, as the radiation therapy must have knocked it high, as you say.
Good luck with the tester- you will waste a few strips getting it right probably!
PS: where's [OP] John gone?
Thanks for the fill-in David.
The headaches we have in common- I feel it may be connected with urates shifting around from my experience with gout flares.
Also, the herbal mix has to be taken after meals but the water bulk has to wait ideally for a couple of hours between meals. This maybe causes a lag in the flushing and builds up levels of what may be indeed quite powerful agents.
I can definitely get the taste in mouth if not taking enough fluids with Goutcure.
Anyway-I can see how hard you tried with the plan, given your co-current attack!
I'm in a better place to run with it than you were- so I'll keep going.
The suppliers have an extensive world wide distribution service- and I hope that there is a reason for the popularity of the approach, ie: it can work.
The diet is very alkalising and only recommended for 5-7days, so I'm looking forward to getting back to a normal diet now and seeing headaches reduce.
The old gout niggles have settled, too.
PS: I know about the Chlorine and Fluoride in long bath soaks- but it's one major relaxant when everything else doesn't work! Marvellous after a 10 mile hike!
Good luck with your continued progress- seems like the worst could well be over!
Be prepared, though, this is Gout!¬
David- I'm interested in your experience with Goutcure. I thought when trying it first that the water needed was more than enough to improve matters whilst taking it- but the problem is the long times needed to both develop and cure this gout.
You tried really hard to stay off meds for good personal reasons. I hope you've got the right one now and make continued progress.
I'm sticking with the herbal approach for 'fine tuning' now , as I've got down to 4.5mg/dl on repeated am. tests and want to make as sure as possible that the urate still hanging around will disperse.
The diet is indeed quite particular and different to normal. No refined carbs, wheat etc is the hardest thing!
Otherwise, I've felt better in general apart from detoxy type headaches- which I got with Gout quite a bit anyway. I suspect it may be connected with UA levels.
I'm not starting a new thread rightaway on this- as you are my 'Goutcare link' now
I will approach Goutcare about their research anyway- and persist with this path for a bit.
PS: I understand peoples' doubts over herbal remedies- they're far from guaranteed- but given the paucity of good uber professional advice you have found, like many, they're maybe not so very flaky after all ,in the wider scheme of things.
I must admit that Diastolic figure @84 does look odd against a mornings' 60.
Is it your machine accurate?- maybe a cross check is worth while. I have two, one manual pump [digital readout] and the other battery pumped.
Repeatability, accuracy- batteries?
I wouldn't worry too much over 'damage' at these figures. The risk is usually in the long term unless you have a serious underlying condition.
However it IS being attended to by your HC Provider.
Like with SUA -long term monitoring is the trick!
You may find the deep breathing methods helpfull mentioned by Phofab -and used by me too.
CJ I would love your BP profile 🙂
Without looking back through piles of data – I think for younger people like you the lower [Diastolic] reading being high is more indicative of problems. As you are keeping fit exercise-wise, your cardio output will be stronger than many, thus transitions under stress are more likely to surge BP readings. The judge is – How do you feel?
If you are feeling faint, headachy or fogged/dizzy you need to worry more- but I think you need to wind down, lose that extra poundage and settle out a while at home!
If you are really worried then a 24hr mobile test is possible to see your daily responses- you don't want uneccesary meds over this issue.
I agree Utube- in your general appraisal.
Like Gout , BP needs to be manged properly and the medics don't really 'get it' in too many cases.
They will generally offer lifestyle chioce ammendments as preferable' first moves'.
Fine- but being all too human, like their patients- they know that, in a complex and stress driven world, this is usually p**ssing in the wind.
Meds are more predictable and legit to prescribe, so it's no wonder the progression through to them is almost instant from professionalls. They have insurance cover & careers to worry over!
I have used a similar program to yours and get down to 4 breaths /min. I must get back to it, as I under-rated the good effects. Thanks for reminding me…
Well I know one poster here who is no fan of voltaren -and Zip will back me up;)
I had it prescribed at hospital when I had a head injury a few years back [concussion after effects took 9 months to clear]. I didn't take many, glad to say. I assume looking back it was their anti-inflamatory action that was a plus and makes them popular for non specific cases.
Though paracetamol has been slated somewhat here as a pain killer I usually default to it, but coupled with Codeine- which is supposed to be habit forming, but I've never had a problem at moderate doses. [3 or 4 a day]
[Paracodal, Co-Codamol or Solpadeine are the UK versions.]
Obviously, in prolonged & severe pain cases, compromises are made with more powerful meds -but this is my take.
I admit in a gout attack the pain killers are not enough- but I prefer a 'deadener' [rather than a surefire all in releif]+Colchicine coupled with other palliatives than get in too deep with meds- I already take enough for BP!
I'm steadily working to make gout history for me.
Well- there's a sort of progression normally followed. Diuretics are usually first- followed by beta Blockers and then angotensin type blockers/retarders. There's some new ones -like direct renin Blockers and they all have side effects to some degree. The body is very complex in this area.
They almost have to have them to be any good [laymans view]- though of course they vary between individuals.
The 'keep up' rate for these drugs is quite poor, apparently.
it's a bit like gout- you need your own measuring kit, insight into your physique and lifestyle, hereditary tendencies and a good awareness of meds available.
It's more understood than gout by a long way- but multiple meds are more common with BP -from what I see.
Again like gout- worry about side effects only if you need the meds first -and then if you actually suffer them! At least you don't get the rotten pain driving you along!
Hey- CJ, you've hit the right spot here 😉
Both Zip and I are on the Furosemide + Losartan combo for BP.
It's supposed to give up to 15% reduction in SUA as well as reduce BP. Losartan isn't that good at BP reduction though it reduces libido less than most apparrently. I also take other meds for BP.
My UA level is down since last year on it, that's something.
The Furosemide [aka Lasix] worsens my high pitch tinnitus* a fair bit- as does the Losartan ,potentially. *A lot of meds can do this. bendroflumethiazide is the one to avoid- it is a gout specialist ! I take both diuretics -unless I have an attack threatening- bit of a juggling act really. Spreading the load !
My BP was 190/90 the other day but I'm twice your age- your lower[ Diastolic] read is on the high side for your age but a lot of people react to 'white coats' – and the stress lifts the readings.
Gout and Hi BP go together rather a lot. A report a couple of years back showed in NY that AlloP reduced BP in a huge number of young cases- in a trial.
I fail to see the fundamental difference between Soy and Black beans for import discrimination. They are both legumes, though BB are a major US bean crop , as they have migrated from Mexico area – whereas Soy are classed as a seed crop, because they are used mostly for oil production or animal feed.
This link http://www.tradekey.com/produc…..995987.htm [China]
for animal feed shows an immense care in analysis , but the human users of BB don't get any data !
They are a wonderful food source- indeed, criminal for non- gouties to throw away
PS: I was just shutting down browser windows after this check when I found this- looks like a strong possibilty, and about the same price as BB :-
Glad to Help Juliana- it doesn't take much to chip in here and there when a bit of support is needed!
On the 'additives' front- I'm glad it sounds good for the diet-I only add the extras at the re-use stage and right at the end to stop 'boil off' of light fractions.
Also, I would think the effects would be a lot less after keeping, even if they didn't overhasten the batch deteriorating in the fridge over a few days.
Maybe the batch won't last that long with your current needs.
I hope your visit goes well today.
Hyperuricaemia isn't Gout. All people with high UA levels don't all suffer from gout.
Gout is the bodies' over-response to the high UA and if Colchicine helps reduce or stop an attack- then that is a useful and effective prophylactive. The fact it may have side effects, and serious ones, doesn't alter this fact.
It does ,of course, imply long co-therapy of diet control etc. to maintain this profile.
I've seen references to the use of Colchicine long term and in times past -it was the only thing.
Being based on a plant extract – so not a synthetic drug like AlloP- this doesn't detract from the situation any. I'm not a worshipper of magic bullets , generallly.
If masking a problem is not helpful- it would explain peoples' ire at badly managed drug therapy!
