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I'm sure lymphatic drainage must be good for anyone. A lot of therapies seem to extol its virtue and the system is very important for health.
On the safety angle. I once, [years ago when much lighter] got into a Bouncy Castle with my kids- Jeeze what an experience. The effect of some mass moving at speed was wierd and not a little dangerous.
People have been killed on odd occasions due to exiting trampolines or colliding.
Not yet banned in this safety leery age!
Ed: Your design sound much less 'exiting' -but if anyone gets over enthusiastic, the safety angle is important here -especially at the age or weight involved.
Here's good pic that shows you can nearly break a toe and NOT trigger gout!
I'd forgotten how to get a pic on here- It's hardly obvious- but I hope it makes you say Ouch and Congrats at the same time :0
I kicked my vacuum cleaner about a foot+ across the landing, in the dark.
[ Yeah, I wander bare footed at night!]
On a technical note- the big toe shows the site of my last attack- must have been 2 years ago that side. My last 2 attacks were on the left ankle and big toe. No meds. 7.5 mg/dl.
Don't be too hasty over the BBB, Darren!
The beans are left out of the equation proper- it's the stuff out of the skins that does it! The protein is the insides and is not helpful to take in!
Just drink the liquid remains, if you try it.
Although it may be expensive- if you have gout, you need to know your SUA number before anything can squarely be said about how to go forward.
On a broader note- all the things you (and I) like are usually bad for us- and particularly gout.
I would say you need to consider that aspect more- Diet is not a simple issue , nor easy to follow well. All your likes are on my treats list!
Otherwise, in the long term, 'meds' will be the only option.
Nokka, that's good news. Effective testing and lower level to boot!
Why not cash in on your new power over the wretch gout and bring in some diet controls that can only help your levels stay the right side.
As you 're not getting 'blinder' attacks and are familiar with your twinges- you are in quite an enviable position for a gouty – able to pinch it off under test conditions and avoid the drug route, untill you HAVE to have them.
There's loads of advice on here about diets and coping strategies- so let us know.
It won't be a doddle ,but I think you would be happier in the long run…
Are you game for it ? π
Hello Joan! Well you escaped gout for a long time – but it's never welcome at any age.
I found a few years back, well before gout arrived, that my sleep ,weight and digestion were all a bit 'off'.
After reading it all up- I tried stopping ordinary wheat and kept just to a small spelt loaf a week with the occasional lapse back to wholemeal. On a Hay or Leptin diet carbs take a back seat anyway.
Rye / Sourdough breads are worth a try, if you like them.
This strategy certainly helped, though it takes some months. It seems to have stopped diverticulitis from progreesing and many other pointers say modern wheat is not a good idea for some of us.
Whether this is connected with the tendency to gout,I wouldn't know.
I wouldn't be surprised as it's connected with body type,genetic disposition, blood type , lifestyle and much more.
'Blood type 'O 'is not supposed to be good for a high carb diet- more for meat- but I'm mostly veggie, which doesn't help! Is that you, too?
I bet, if I looked, I could find stuff on line linking the two, but direct experience is always worth a punt- as many subtleties get missed in heavy studies -or the plethora of ads online.
Medics just don't focus on diets, though they always stress their importance -as they reach for the prescription pad!
1500 mgs/day [slow release] is what I normally take as a supplement. [When I have them handy].
Perhaps the slow release is well intentioned- but a mistake as, like Colchicine, a flush through the system, if not the lower bowel , would be more useful for gout etc?
I've certainly never remotely felt a sense that Vit.C was making things worse, anyway!
After this read, I think I'll get back on them again- All hands to the pumps
[I'm still rather wary of mega doses anything, vitamins are always best found in a normal diet]
But gout may be an honourable exception… π
Further to the above discussion on water quality- have you people with water quality issues considered a sink top filter for at least drinking supplies?
We have them in the UK for around £120. There seems so much on the water filter front in the US, too.
I plan to get one , mainly as I don't like what fluoride is reported as doing, though my supply is at least of the 'natural' kind, and high level.
Murky area- if any care to investigate.
How do I control Gout- I don't!My fingers are well crossed!
But- I try to control lifestyle choices that impact it.
Fortunately I have retired, so my previous stress has reduced, my BP is under better control and I've lost quite a few lbs in weight this year.
I've reduced alcohol consumption and tried the dietary cherries, BBB and water upping -hard to remember that one! ;~(
I've upped daily regular exercise,too.
I recently nearly broke a small toe (the Dr. in A&E thought I had) and it didn't develop gout. I've had small toe gout previously, btw. My levels are a bit higher than yours, last take- but my attacks were spread over some years and painful enough to stop work- but not like some on here report.
Probably, I've got used to living with it to some degree- but I realise this is not a good place to be. If I can't see improvements in SUA test results- I will probably end up on AP by default ,eventually -unless both attack and tophi free at a level <6 SUA. Only one full attack in a year though!
I think that relects as a 6.9 [x1000/59 approx] mg/dl.
As you know that is above the threshold for avoiding attacks, once they have started , and yours certainly are banging along right now!
I don't take AP so can't talk about my levels- but an increase would certainly speed things up.
Your Dr. seems OK with this- it seems the usual case of unfamiliarity breeding content!
He is letting you decide!
Even if you increase dose- you will still have some time to spend clearing your system of urate.
You will probably eventually follow Zips' suggested route -on your level of discomfort!
Hi Rhodri.
It would help here to say what dose of AP you're on now -and, importantly, what your serum UA levels were at recent tests.
Doctors see SUA levels that cause gout as 'normal' , sad to say.
The best all round excercise for health is walking. Gouties will know if they are near an attack (hopefully) as the joints will start to complain. This can be a problem on long walks- but that is really a seperate issue.
Swimmming is good for load bearing joints not getting stressed- but here, I would think water temp. is important. Cold will stimulate circulation -but too long in the cold would not be good.
Most public pools seem to be moderately warm- too much so if doing multiple lengths.
I find cycling invaluable when having a gout attack as it's the ONLY free way to travel in this state.
Getting on and off can be agonising- I have scraped many a shin trying to hop over the frame when dismounting π
Yoga would help- I don't do it now but foot exercises are in the lexicon.
There's also a relaxation routine that tenses and relaxes all the body group muscles in turn -so there is plenty for self help out there. This can include deep breathing which can help many other issues.
The main time for risk is when asleep though, I reckon- and extra cladding at the bed base is worth a thought- esp. if you don't like bedsocks ..[ & I don't].
Joking apart, there's no doubt that escaping the effects of high UA ,with or without gout , means keeping consolidation sites warm. mainly the feet. hands and knees can be dealt for, too.
The similarity with Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) comes to mind -where relatively young people have suffered bad effects and even died ( if memory serves) after long, immobilising plane flights.
Warnings about this are common now- but seemed strange in the early days to me, anyway- for other than the elderly.
Gout is increasing, but still not so common. Hopefully sites like this will not only highlight the risks of high SUA and how to treat & manage gout – but also bring this simple fact to the fore.
I shall definitely be watching my foot warmth this winter and ensuring daily exercise for my feet.
Any weight loss is good in this context, not necessarily Hay based. It's not an easy one. It doesn't fit well with Leptin Diet I'm looking at either.
All the same- Veg purines have been shown not to be a problem for gout in the same way that animal based ones are. Beer is a 'no no' on experiences – and anyway yeast is ex living animal cell type.Hops have at least one hormone related constituent & it ain't slimming!
I have tested the BP versus weight issue myself and there is a linear connection. High BP is a definitely identified gout risk factor -along with plain overweight.
A major interest in acidosis in the body is what started Hays' work & he ended up as director of 2 sanitoriums over 13 years, before he died by car accident.
For Gouties- body acid load seems to be a prime factor!
This link is a store site- but ignore the extras , it's a good story with a [quite complex] Hay diet guide and a balanced critique.
I'm keen on this idea ,Zip-
You could charge admmission to make it worth while- or even put it on Utube!
NY 's a wunnerful place
Interesting comment GP-
@” the sample temperature was, from memory, 24 degrees (centigrade)”.
Any idea at which point the crystal process started on the way down?
[and also ended on the way back up, too].
Very pertinent area of investigation.
Gout aint rocket science- it just feels like it sometimes…
Exactly Zip! @ Part of the problem with doctors and gout…they treat it lightly
As is often the case, a side remark- ( garden variety) illustrates the overall problem only too well.
Highlighted by the off hand diagnosis and management..
Recent reports of longevity point straight at limited calory diets as the major contributory factor..
Now, I don't want to live for ever, but why make the journey harder?
As to imminent fears of book buying ( is this a gout side effect?) there's so much on line and in second hands books that, for anyone interested, it's a low cost option.
As to mayonaise- I did wonder- but if that's a penchant ,all the more human. I woulldn't consider their diet ideas listed anyway. It's up to the individual every time.It does need thought, though!
Forget the horse-they don't get gout, afaik! Nice pic.
On the sugar- I'm not sure it's actually encouraged- in any case refined sugars are the 'bad'.
Alcohol is far worse for dead calories. Not pointing any fingers…
For Mrs Seb: – don't let these comments affect your (drug) free enquiries.
What is confusing, to me at least, about UA- is where it is.
Joints, tissues, blood or being/been excreted.
The focus usually is on the joints- but the bigger picture is very fundamental to understanding UA management.
I suppose a test kit tells more- but not enough.
A wild card , for sure!
Hi Mrs Seb ! : On the diet front, I have recently gone back to looking at the Hay Diet- very well known- and you probably are aware of his work.
It's more about not mixing Protein and Carb intake- but in trying to adhere to it your Carb intake has to rocket down- due to it not mixing with proteins and chip butties aint healthy π
Likewise your fruit and veg intake will climb- both good trends as they can go with either [except potatoes]
If you are NOT veggie, this will make life easier, I would think -and the alkalising more helpful in passing, other than weight loss [on the gout front].
There is also an acid/ alkali angle to this where some acid forming foods, like Spelt, wild rice and oat milk are considered 'healthy'.
I can't recommend a book but there many out there. Data on-line is useful too – A good way to find your best leads, after a bit of digging- and usually a few surprises.
If you are keen, why not start a thread here ?
[But you will need to register π ]
Ha!
“Order of the Garter” Nice one… π
SirL -You're right about pain making judgement difficult- This site helps a lot in that direction.
What I'm saying- and it's your decision, is – If you don't start AP now- then you will have to get a lifestyle overview sorted and really work hard to stay on top of gout, without meds.
I didn't get gout till 60 or so- fortunately, but even then I'm trying to manage without meds on top of my BP ones. That is my choice- and I no longer work! This is some latitude for me.
For you, I would think once you establish compatibility with the AP @ 100mg you can increase it weekly to the correct dose for you- as illustrated on many posts here and keep a firm eye on your blood tests frequency and actual levels.
With this approach you will get on top of the problem in a proven way- at the same time gaining confidence in your gout management.
It's not scary, really. It may well get a lot more painful, if you don't act now you are 'on the case' for real !
I think the 8.8 is about right. Multiply by 1000 and divide by 59 approx.
The joys of not being metric!
It's a high reading, so without a lot of other work with diet etc the meds approach is far from outlandish. 40 isn't exactly middle aged, these days- but you know what to expect, if left untreated!
Maybe a slow start on 100mg would be worth a try- to see if you are happy on AlloP?
If you've got the garden gout- I don't know what the greenhouse one is like π
I would say- yes!¬ you have the Big G and your medic is trying to operate blind if the results aren't coming through right. With the reaction you have, he is probably wary of upping your dose to 300 mg- and you ARE heading in the right direction SUA wise, albeit with some pain.
Thy racing stripe doesn't scan for me- but it could be a co-incident infection. Nothing says it can't happen! My gout pains, [if not just 'lumps'] are usually centred right on a joint…spreading out from there later on, from the centre.
It looks like you're on track- it will take more time to settle this.
I've always associated the soak procedure with the same routine for Lima Beans mentioned in the following:
A Text Book Of Nutrition
By Vidya & D.B. Rao
This says cyanogenetic glucosides are formed oin hydrolosis (yields hydrocyanic acid) in Phaseolous Lunatus (Lima bean). This is well known. Many plants have defences against being consumed which can be toxic to man.
Whether the same thing happens, maybe to a lesser degree, in the Turtle bean , I don't know- but I'm not keen to test this for posterity π
I would say soak for around 6 hours (min) and throw away the water, for safety.
The cold water may remove the dodgy bit and the hot water routine yield the 'better' bits.
Quite likely, if analysed ,the results could be frightening. Many drugs sold are toxic in small amounts, including our old friend Colchicine. But Hell- Gout is Gout!
Hence my earlier comment about their use becoming illegal if Big P 'gets a bead' on the market.
In any case, my local health food store (supplier) got out their 'bible' on the matter -and it definitely says – soak these babies !
My tendency is to take ( up to) a cup at a time BBB in soup- once or twice a day when 'niggles' start up.
I must admit that I haven't taken it in 'desperate times' of a bad attack, as some report- in this case I would do more , but still spread it out somewhat.
Definitely refridgerate the left over balance Dan! I have some kept so, about 4 days old that i must finish soon, the rest I froze for later. Cover it quickly and chill early- to stop airborne moulds getting a look in.
Such a murky brew- you wouldn't know what was going on inside π but a good reheat with a soup should be OK.
I suppose it would ferment if enough sugars were present- in the warm, but I don't think that's likely- it's not the least bit sweet.
I think the original method of soaking reduces any toxins that could settle out later.
A 'black' art, indeed- but better than Big G having a clear run!
On the research angle- it doesn't seem like much is happening- but we won't know until it's published!! Genetics seem a good angle- and I must pursue the line a bit further.
On the latter point..
I know Zip may crank up on this- but in the back of my mind is:
Antioxidants stopping free radical damage to artery walls that would normally be repared by chloresterol deposits- which would then hasten high BP and arterial sclerosis.
This is something that GP has mentioned a while back in rough detail- and I thought there could be something it, at the time.
At that price Dan- you can throw them twice as far ! π
[if you can freeze 'em, then use in soups,currys or bean burger mixes etc.]
Well, Zip- you seem to accept my reservations on this analysis.
I understand your preference to see gender,race and age as obscurants because that is exactly what they are!
Unfortunately, these variables- in such a deeply hidden processes in the human body, are where the research is needed.
I'm pretty well vegetarian anyway, so don't mind reducing what I don't do anyway π -but I think you're right about 'vested interests' affecting the direction of research in broad terms.
If you are specifically right over Gout, and moreso CV disease connection with simple hyperSUA, than that would help explain why there is a readily agreed [here at least] feeling that the medical world is not keen on really pinning down the causes of gout – only in managing and relieving the results of longterm neglect.
I think the term is Denial?
Many Gov't programs exist to educate about the dangers of smoking, obesity and alcohol abuse [though they all raise tax revenue…] but little about our 'special interest' – SUA !
I suppose- that is as we're on a Elder, Male and genetically compromised short list- but not for Parliament… where we could have an efect !
[see recent UK Tory 'all female short lists' for the coming election]
DON'T hold your breath
PS: Any new data will help push the debate along! We may not get a load of company, however!
I personally prefer to stick with the S.American ' Black Turtle' Bean, though my supply is actually from China- and definitely not Soy.
Soy has phytoestrogens in its makeup- which I'd rather do without.
My supply [Health Food shop] is organic and costs £1.46 for 500gm., which is reasonable to me. [$2 appprox].
I've been utilising just a few of the leftover beans in the soup I make – as I hate waste, with no apparent effect on gout twinges. I suspect that the skin reduction 'simmer' broth enhances the protective effect over a few 'added' back bean kernels.
I wouldn't go any further than this though -and throw 90% of the cooked beans away.
Everyone is different Sue- but he can expect a week of bad pain, lucky to be moving much, followed by 1 to 2 weeks slow recovery on top, in my experience.
Home rest will help – getting back to work is one thing i manage well without !
It must be hard to stand at the side for you, but it will end- this bad phase.
Make sure you get the blood test results and keep this monitored.
Colchicine,normally very useful, may not be an easy option for your husband- it needs some interaction from the user to gauge best dose and deal with side effects.
You will find plenty of support here, though- so keep positive.
